Foreign women and orfi marriages in Egypt
trailing grouse in cultural differences, real life, relationships, society | 
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I wrote a while ago about foreign women marrying Egyptian men. It led to a full inbox of questions. I thought I’d take it a step further and explain that there are two types of marriages in Egypt.
First is the ‘official’ marriage. This is where the bride is dressed up (usually in white) a large venue is booked, official photographs are taken, videographers are often present, and copious numbers of family, friends and colleagues gather, dressed up to the nines and celebrate as lavishly as the couple’s families’ budget allows. For Christians there is a church service beforehand and for Muslims the religious ceremony happens before the wedding party, sometimes months before, and will always involve at least the bride and groom’s close family members. This is because, for marriage to be fully sanctioned in Islam, it is essential that ’society’ knows about it. It is unheard of for a couple to disappear and come back together married.
The second type of marriage is called orfi marriage. This is a fully sanctioned Islamic practice. This wedding, however, does not involve the family, does not have a party and for, the most part, is done in secret. Within the religious culture there are explanations for its existence. In reality it has seedy connotations, (the equivalent of legalising prostitution), as well as romantic starry-eyed ones (students who want to get married but know their families would not agree). It is, however, regarded by NOBODY (the State included) as being an ‘official’ marriage.
The problem with orfi ‘marriages’ between Egyptian men and foreign women (perhaps the same goes the other way around too, I just haven’t heard of it) is that there is usually a huge gulf in understanding the concept of orfi ‘marriages’ between the two people. While the man/Muslim who has been brought up in a culture where he understands the difference from day one, and is used to the idea that the sanctity concept of the word ‘marriage’ applying only to the ‘official’ type, the woman/non-Muslim (or recent convert) often doesn’t fully understand this.
In reality, orfi ‘marriages’ are little more than a contract that allows the couple to live together and share hotel rooms together. They call each other husband and wife, but, and this is where the problems often come in for the foreign party: despite the husband/wife terms being used, there is absolutely no necessity for the underlying intention to be together ’til death us to part’.
The heartbreaking confusion that unfortunately seems to arise from this misunderstanding is common. Neither side is to blame – it’s just one of those cultural misunderstandings arising from cultural differences. It took me about five years of living here and watching how things work to get my head around the fact that when a man is calling someone his wife, it doesn’t necessarily mean she is his life partner if the marriage is orfi.
Perhaps most importantly, in an orfi ‘marriage’, there are no provisions for the wife if a divorce happens and fathers of children in orfi marriages have only recently been made to take some (limited) responsibility for them. The children, as I understand it, would not have a father’s name on their birth certificate. Orfi ‘divorces’ anyway rarely occur, a separation just takes place and both parties disappear into the ether in exactly the same way as they would had they been boyfriend/girlfriend in the West. In contrast, in the ‘official’ Islamic marriages, there are strict religious and social conventions that are followed before the marriage that set a framework for provisions in the case of divorce.
There are some common stories (involving foreigners) I’ve heard throughout my time here:
- A man from Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Kuwait ‘marries’ a new Western convert. The wedding cannot take place in his home country for some reason that sounds fine to Western ears, convert or not, but is in reality socially implausible (as there is no instance where he would have an ‘official’ marriage without large numbers of extended family present).
- Egyptian man and Western woman get ‘married’. She believes they are now husband and wife…
- Egyptian man and Western woman get ‘married’. She understands it’s a contract, however, after months of referring to her partner/boyfriend as her husband and being referred to as his wife, the connotations of those terms begin, somewhere deep inside, to arouse feelings of the type of security she associates with ‘full’ marriage. When it ends, she feels her ‘husband’ wasn’t taking it as seriously as her.
So, bottom line: orfi ‘marriages’ are not marriages in the Western/Christian concept. Orfi ‘marriage’ = contract to live together without the police interfering.
Perhaps most importantly, not all Egyptian men are love rats. Not by any means. Just as not all American, French, Japanese or Outer Mongolian men are (or aren’t). There are huge cultural differences between this culture and Western culture, with both having some amazing points and both having points I don’t like quite so much. When two people from such different cultural backgrounds come together, particularly when the female partner is from the West, there is a labyrinth of problems that arise purely from cultural differences. Linguistic problems often conspire to make it even harder and of course, there are the typical issues that arise when two characters meet.
Relationships between Egyptian men and Western women can and do work out, but they typically take an enormous amount of time, effort, understanding and patience by both parties. And ultimately, the chances of success are limited if one party does not fully understand the framework of their relationship’s basis.
21 Comments
1.
Typ0 commented on November 05, 2008 at 9:42 am
Great post! I’ve heard of Orfi marriages before but never had them explained quite as well.
2.
Lynda commented on November 09, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Holy moly – are you trying to tell us something?
Great post btw…
3.
trailing grouse commented on November 09, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Typ0: Thanks. Hopefully it will answer a few questions out there!
Lynda: Lol! No, not this time! But then again, would I admit it here if I was….
4.
Jok commented on January 22, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Hi
I have just been reading many articles on the internet about Orfi marriages and by far yours is the best explanation.
I wondered if you could clarify something for me please,
I had an Orfi marriage which was then registered at an Egyptian court. I have the court paper but not the ‘orfi’ paper. Are the court papers the ‘official’ papers and there for legalize the marriage?
5.
trailing grouse commented on January 23, 2009 at 7:34 am
Hi Jok,
Before I answer, I’ll double check with some people. This may take a couple of days, but don’t worry, I’ll be back!
6.
lolita austria commented on February 14, 2009 at 5:52 am
hi im lolita,i was married by means of orfi marrieges,i wonder if i can renew my visa alone since i dont have any contact to my husband anymore?
7.
trailing grouse commented on February 16, 2009 at 6:29 am
Hi Lolita,
I think it depends on what sort of visa you have. If you had a tourist visa (it says on the visa), then you can renew it alone. The orfi marriage will not change the visa status from what I understand. However, there are new rules about tourist visas and (I have heard) that you have to leave the country before renewing them. This is to try to curb the number of people working illegally in Egypt. They are also only for 3 months, again, from what I have heard. I have not had to renew my visa yet so I haven’t been to mogama’a to find out. The orfi marriage should have no impact on the visa, though, so you should be able to do it alone.
8.
Maria commented on February 17, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Hi, you know any more about orfi ‘divorces’? My orfi husband tells me that if he wants to divorce me he has to make a paper with a lawyer so the ‘divorce’ is legal because we both are muslims.
9.
trailing grouse commented on February 18, 2009 at 6:10 am
Hi Jok,
Sorry for the delay. I have had various responses to this when I’ve asked people. This stems from some confusion about the court papers. I can ask more if you like, but need some clarification about what exactly the ‘court papers’ are, i.e. are they legal docs signed by a lawyer, or did you actually go to a governmental office? You can email me at thegrouse@trailinggrouse.com if you want more info.
10.
hayles commented on May 07, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Hello,
This lady i know is married. Went on holiday with family and met this waiter. Her husband is disabled and she went back to visit this egyptian waiter alone after a few months of speaking on the phone. Apparently she married him whilst visiting him, and I wondered how she could get away with this, Its just a piece of paper over there isnt it? He is now planning a trip to the uk in july
She has done an ‘orfi’ marriage in egypt
11.
mariha commented on May 13, 2009 at 1:01 am
hi all i have just returned from sharm el sheikh and met this wonerfull egyptian man who when i was there all we did was talk about everyday things a few days before i left he was being ulta nice to me and i do believe he is genuine as he didnt seem the type to come on to girls he was rather quiet, there was many girls around and he never seemed interested in any of them i had only been there a few days when i first noticed him and you look and watch there ations etc but all he did was work work work so anyhow like i say on the last few days he was telling me i had the most beautifull eyes and that was that on the night before we left he was at our table all the time so on leaving we said nice to meet you etc and gave him a good tip said we amy return in the autum well the next day when he was suposed to be finished work he came to the pool where i was sitting and sain he had to say one last goodbye i gave him a hug and he had a tear in his eye, we exchanged mobile numbers and i never thought for one min he would text i was at the airport and he should have been sleeping as it was his tme to sleep he texts says he had great time meeting me etc and to be honest i was flattered well 6 weeks have gone by and everyday night he texts me its now he wants me to go back and he will take 2 weeks off work and we will rent apartment which he willpay he offered he wants to cook listen to music and ???? i said i was worried about law in egypt he then said about contract to stay together which i believe is the orfi marraige if i want to get that we will if not we wont as it will be ok for us its up 2 me what i want he says just put paper in my bag and after holiday if i still want him keepit and when i visit again useit or put in the bin but hopes i would keep it if we get one. he then says he wants me for life and one day we both stay in egypt and go to cairo for full contarct marraige if i want. i guess alot of people will think [WAKE UP] but he sounds so trusting and to be honest i do believe him we now text when i wake in the morning when he goes to bed at lunchtime he texts me then again when he starts work or before i text b4 i go to sleepand sometimes he calls around 4 in the morning becauce its quiet then and i know this as all managers etc big bosses have gone and this is everyday does anyone think i am getting taken for a mug?????? how can he know he wants me if nothing really happened when i was there??/
12.
trailing grouse commented on May 13, 2009 at 6:49 am
Hi Hayles, Sorry it’s taken so long to respond. I do not know what the Orfi marriage paper means to UK immigration officials and therefore if it has any standing in his visa application. It could be that she’s inviting him to the UK and guaranteeing his return to Egypt (that would usually be a type of bond that she loses if he doesn’t go back) although, of course, I’m not sure of how this system works exactly. More to the point, if this is the case, it does not mean at all that he will go back.
If I hear anything relating to orfi marriages and visa applications, I’ll pop it up here.
13.
Trailing Grouse » Foreign woman, Egyptian waiter..love..your views. commented on May 19, 2009 at 9:31 am
[...] recently received a comment on the Foreign women and orfi marriages in Egypt post. It was addressed as “Hi All” so I thought I’d post it here to [...]
14.
trailing grouse commented on May 19, 2009 at 12:14 pm
You can check out a continuation of this theme in a real life setting on the post (copy and paste this into your browser): http://trailinggrouse.com/2009/05/foreign-woman-egyptian-waiterloveyour-views
TG
15.
Jen commented on June 03, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Hey TG! Love your blog.
I was wondering if two American non-Muslims moving to Egypt should consider engaging in an orfi marriage to avoid any scrutiny associated with non-married people living together. My boyfriend and I are moving to Cairo in August, we’ve been together for several years, and we’ll be living together there.
16.
trailing grouse commented on June 07, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Hi Jen,
Glad you enjoy it!
I would say: ABSOLUTELY NOT! Primarily you not Muslim, so it wouldn’t be possible.
Just pretend you’re married and (if asked) your certificate is not with you because you never normally carry it when you’re travelling. Perhaps some fake wedding rings – that will get around most problems.
Good luck!
17.
Queen commented on July 14, 2009 at 4:52 am
Just one question pls. Are this orfi contracts still being used in hotels like in Aswan, Luxor and Sharm-el-sheik? I was planning on going again in September but was told yesterday that I better book 2 rooms as this is not being accepted at these places by the hotels anylonger.
18.
trailing grouse commented on July 17, 2009 at 7:16 am
Hi Queen,
I’m afraid I don’t know. Read my reply to MM regarding the double hotel room issue.
I have to say that I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a tightening on this, given the beliefs of the majority of Egyptian citizens, who are taking religion and morality more seriously these days.
19.
Queen commented on July 21, 2009 at 1:53 am
Thanks for your answer. Just was asking because Im going to visit Egypt. But no problem because my fiance and I are getting married for real when we get back to USA so when we do go back we have not problem. It was just that I was readind about this orfi marriages but could not understand good what they were good for if they were good for anything. Thanks again
20.
asha commented on September 29, 2009 at 7:15 am
hello! i have question about orfi marriage in Egypt.is it possible to marry without agreement of my parents if i am 28, i am from Uzbekistan, and still i am not divorced cause my husband was lost.but i work in Egypt, and i have relation with egyptian man.
21.
trailing grouse commented on October 04, 2009 at 9:38 am
Hi Asha,
You can marry without the agreement of your parents with an orfi marriage, HOWEVER, if you are legally still married, I do not believe you can marry again. You should check this out, because if you are not legally (within Islam) allowed to remarry at this moment, the Orfi marriage, which already contains few safeguards for you, will be effectively worthless.